Topics: October 7 anniversary, Coalition’s migration policy E&OE....................... CHRIS SMITH: I'd like to bring in Liberal Senator Dave Sharma, who's been part of the commemorations today. Dave, welcome to the program.
DAVE SHARMA: Good morning, Chris. Thanks for having me on.
CHRIS SMITH: Yeah, you've already contributed earlier today to the commemorations marking October 7th, haven't you?
DAVE SHARMA: Yeah, I was down at Bondi Pavilion this morning at about 6:30 AM for a commemoration on the 3-year anniversary of the October 7th attack. But of course, inevitably on people's minds is also the December 14th terrorist attack at Bondi Beach, which killed 15 Australians and which sadly is, um, is, is linked to the October 7th terrorist attack.
CHRIS SMITH: What happened on October 7th doesn't come anywhere near what the Nazis did to Jewish people during the Second World War, but because it actually occurred after those horrific events, Dave, it's even more shameful, is it not? DAVE SHARMA: Look, I think it is. I mean, it was— it had all the It was the single largest loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust. It happened in Israel, a country that was created after the Second World War to give sanctuary and safety to Jewish people. And it was not a military operation. It was a massacre. It was designed to kill as many people as possible, innocent civilians, because of their nationality, because of their faith. It was a pogrom.
CHRIS SMITH: Yeah, I expressed my disgust last week at what's being planned today by the— well, they're antisemitic groups who sadly share the same oxygen as we do in this country. How dare they gather to commemorate the murderous actions of those bloodthirsty Hamas terrorists, David Sharma?
DAVE SHARMA: It's disgusting. It's just shameful. I can't stress that highly enough. The thought that they need to choose today of all days not to commemorate the innocent people, the children, the elderly, the babies that were killed on that day and the terrible atrocities that were done to people who managed to survive that day as well. They're using that occasion, they're trying to hijack that occasion to push their own political agenda. I mean, this should be a day for mourning and remembering the victims. Those protesters, they've got 364 other days of the year where they can talk about their issue. But The— just the gross insensitivity, the poor taste. It's just— it's shameful and it's disgusting.
CHRIS SMITH: So many of my listeners are asking, why the hell are we allowing these creeps to dance on the graves of the innocent? Can we not stop them? And should we?
DAVE SHARMA: I think we should. Chris Minns has said it's not within his power to do so. Look, I'm not enough of an expert to have a view on that, but certainly police are able to withhold permits for protests if they think there will be consequences for public safety or public order. Now, whether that extends to things like this that are just abhorrent to public taste, I'm not certain, but I certainly don't think they should be going ahead. And everyone in, you know, in their right mind should be condemning and discouraging and urging authorities to use all their powers to make sure they do not go ahead.
CHRIS SMITH: Rabbi Yehuda Kaploun, the US envoy on antisemitism, he's basically torn into the Albanese government overnight for failing to do enough about hatred in this country towards Jewish people in the years leading up to the Bondi attacks. Does the government have blood on its hands in reference to Bondi, Dave Sharma?
DAVE SHARMA: I think undoubtedly the government failed to heed the warnings that many in the Jewish community, in the security community, the national security community, that their own antisemitism special envoy gave them about the rise of antisemitism in Australia and the risks it was posing to the Jewish community. And I think the reflections of the US special envoy on antisemitism and Holocaust remembrance overnight just reflects that, that the warning signs were all there. They were blinking red. And the Albanese government failed to take steps it should have taken.
CHRIS SMITH: There's a counter-terrorism report coming out of Israel this morning, I read, pointing to some credible intelligence of further attacks against the Jewish nation soon. They will never stop their hate, will they?
DAVE SHARMA: I don't have any doubt that what's left of Hamas and some of these other groups— Hezbollah, the Houthis, the Iranian government are planning and plotting to, you know, conduct similar such operations. They would, you know, their dream is to have many October 7ths. Our aim should be to ensure that there is never another October 7th.
CHRIS SMITH: I want to talk about domestic politics before we let you go. Your leader, Angus Taylor, has played what some could describe as another game of snap with One Nation on reducing immigration numbers. The key move is to reduce temporary migration by 650,000 over 4 years. This particular temporary visa con has blown out of all proportion. Why is your plan better than One Nation's?
DAVE SHARMA: Well, because, look, we've had our plan analysed with the help of the Parliamentary Budget Office. Our plan, when we release the details of it before the election, will be fully modelled and fully costed. And we can point, as you'll see in the details of the release, exactly what's going to happen to each visa category. What are the consequences going to be? What does it mean for working holiday maker visas? What does it mean for students? What does it mean for people on bridging visas? What does it mean for the permanent migration program? We've put all those numbers and all those details out there. Now, all you've had from One Nation— I think you've had several different immigration policies from them before— is some slogans and some sort of headline figures. But they can't tell you how they're going to do this. They can't tell you which visa categories they're going to touch, and they can't tell you what will be the impact on the budget or the economy. We can tell you each of those things.
CHRIS SMITH: But can you seriously make cuts to that degree and faithfully expect the economy to function? Because these people, whether we like it or not, do jobs Australians refuse to do.
DAVE SHARMA: Look, firstly, it's important to note here we're keeping the permanent skilled migration program where it is— 185,000 places a year. We're keeping the Working Holiday Maker arrangement as it is. The free movement of labour between Australia and New Zealand continues. What we're really targeting here is people who on— have been rolling onto different types of year after year and not making a commitment to the nation by becoming permanent residents or citizens, but just shifting from one visa category to another. Now, we've got a situation now where there's about 3 million people in Australia, 1 in 10, who are here on temporary visas. It's become a guest worker scheme, not by design, but by default. Yeah. where students who've come here to study, 10 years later, half of them are still here, well after you would have expected any degree to be completed. So we're saying we still want migration, but it needs to come in through the regular channels. If you want to migrate to Australia, then don't shift around visa classes and apply onshore and then be on a bridging visa. Go offshore, apply for the permanent skilled migration program, and if you qualify, we'll take you. And that's how our migration program has always run in Australia.
CHRIS SMITH: Because we're terribly scammed here, aren't we?
DAVE SHARMA: Yes, I think so. I think a lot of people are gaming the system. And look, you know, I don't— people will do that when you create these loopholes or shortcuts in the system. People are always going to take them. That's why government needs to set the rules and enforce those rules. But at the moment, I mean, basically the government can't control migration numbers because there are all these loopholes that people are exploiting— bridging visas, changing your visa category, changing your course of study, rolling onto another type of visa, you know, being here for several years and then making a claim for humanitarian protection or refugee status when obviously you should have made that when you first got to Australia. All these sorts of games are being played, and it means that Labor has lost control of our numbers. And I think even they recognise it, but they're not prepared to grapple with what you need to do to bring them back down.
CHRIS SMITH: Dave, I'll get you to stay just one second because Peter, one of our listeners, has phoned through. wants to talk about these vigils, these protests. ahead, Peter. Dave Sharma is listening.
PETER: Yeah, Dave, do you think it's un-Australian what these protesters are doing?
DAVE SHARMA: I think it's completely un-Australian, Peter. Australians are decent, fair, considerate, compassionate people. And I think we recognize, you know, the terrible loss of life and the brutal suffering that was perpetrated on October 7th by Hamas terrorist attacks. And we don't think they should in any way be glorified or celebrated, but these protesters seem to be hell-bent on doing just that.
PETER: Yeah, well, um, out of the UN, 1979 to 2024, April 2024, 66,872 Islamic attacks, 249,941 people died. That's not counting the people that were injured, right? Now, are you going to ban this Islamic stuff coming in? Because we didn't get a vote on it. The people of Australia never got a vote on it. We want you to ask the people what they want to do with immigration. You decided— Malcolm Fraser brought the, uh, the Skat Brothers in that gang raped a young girl. Now, these should have been warnings, but the Liberals didn't take it. You lost power, then the Labor has fully gone on socialist by the old, and, uh, we're going down the road. If you just have a look at Pakistan right now, they're nearly bankrupt. They can't— France, I mean. They're nearly bankrupt and the people are rioting. And they're saying, if you watch different Al Jazeera programs, they're saying it's because the country's broke, they can't do anything, they've got no money. We're heading that way. We're not building wealth. Nobody's building wealth in this country. The government's taxing the people that are trying to make it out of existence. And without wealth, you don't have schools, roads, hospitals.
CHRIS SMITH: And I think there are 3 questions in one, Dave Sharma, and I know you have to go. One quick comment from you?
DAVE SHARMA: Well, look, I think, I mean, we do want to get the economy moving again in Australia. We want a migration program that's working in Australia's national interests. And that allows us to get productivity moving again, get the economy moving again, and allow people to live the life of dreams and aspirations. That's why we're committed to getting control of migration. That's why we're committed to reversing and undoing Labor's new taxes. And that's why we're committed to getting the economy growing again and making sure the government lives within its means.
CHRIS SMITH: Thank you so much for giving us the time that you have this morning, Dave Sharma, on a terrible day, I know, for you and your community. Thank you very much for that.
DAVE SHARMA: Thanks for talking to me, Chris.
CHRIS SMITH: No problem. Liberal Senator Dave Sharma.
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